On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Sen. Bill Hagerty, Republican of Tennessee
- White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan
- Rep. Ro Khanna, Democrat of California
- Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neel Kashkari
- Karen Pierce, British ambassador to the U.S.
Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan.
And this week on Face the Nation: What’s next for America after former President Trump’s decisive victory? With Donald Trump and his allies now focused on their agenda for Washington and the world, how and will he deliver on his campaign promises?
We will begin with Republican Senator Bill Hagerty. He served in Trump’s first term as ambassador to Japan. Will he return for a bigger role in the second?
National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan will be here to discuss President Biden’s national security priorities, as the clock ticks down on the commander in chief.
Plus: After Democrats lost support from key voter groups, the party faces an identity crisis and the process of rebuilding. California Congressman Ro Khanna will weigh in on the challenges ahead.
British Ambassador to the U.S. Dame Karen Pierce will be here to talk about the European reaction to Trump’s return. And we will check in with Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neel Kashkari about the Fed’s interest rate cut and the incoming administration’s ambitious plans to reshape the economy.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
As we wrap up campaign 2024, the scope of Republican control in Washington over the next few years is coming into focus. Overnight, CBS projected Donald Trump the winner in Arizona, giving him a complete electoral vote sweep of the seven battleground states.
With a final tally of 312 electoral votes, Republicans scored their biggest White House win in 36 years. Republicans will also control the Senate with at least 52 seats, and there are two races that have not yet been called by CBS News. Control of the House is still to be determined with a few contests outstanding, but CBS News rates it as leaning Republican at this point.
We begin this morning with what we have learned about the incoming Trump administration, personnel, priorities, and more.
We turn now to Robert Costa.
Bob, good to have you here.
I know you have been speaking to your sources. What will the second term look like?
ROBERT COSTA: Great to be with you, Margaret.
In recent days, I have spoken to president-elect Trump, called him up on the phone, along with his top advisers and allies. And what’s notable about this transition is that, unlike in 2016, when he was elected as a Washington outsider, now he knows all the players in Washington.
And he alone, more than any other aid, is evaluating the personnel and possibilities around him. And he reflected in one of our conversations about how he sees his mandate, that he has a movement and a base and now a party that’s fully behind him. And he wants to make sure that anyone who comes on board has his same vision for that mandate and for his perceived level of support.
And you have seen in recent days people around Trump in the wider orbit are trying to recommend a lot of names, but it’s Trump himself who’s saying to his top aides like Susie Wiles, his incoming chief of staff, that he wants to make sure that this is not a chaotic process and it’s reflective of where he wants to go, more than any other kind of counsel.
And on foreign policy, for example, you see names like Senator Bill Hagerty, Senator Marco Rubio, former Ambassador Ric Grenell, all people who identify with Trump’s vision. But those who have had issues with Trump in the past about how he perceives foreign policy, like, for example, former Ambassador Nikki Haley or former Secretary Mike Pompeo, are now out of the process.
And it’s not because of any personal trouble with Trump, I’m told. It’s because, at the end of the day, Trump wants to make sure things are moving along smoothly on ideological and policy lines come January.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do we know what it was with Mike Pompeo, who served him quite loyally for four years as CIA director and secretary of state? Was it his support, for example, of Ukraine?
ROBERT COSTA: It’s just a different orbit around Trump right now. The president-elect has people like Donald Trump Jr., Elon Musk. He has Steve Bannon on the outside advising him.
These are people who are noninterventionists. These are people who aren’t traditional Republican hawks. That’s not to say some hawks won’t end up in this administration or some Wall Street figures might end up in this administration as well.
I’m told by my sources that the president-elect is not ruling out mainstream Republicans or more centrist Republicans from joining his team. But, at this point, he’s moving quickly to make sure his base, his party, and his image is reflected in the personnel picks fully.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What are his priorities for the 1st 100 days? Or is that too traditional a way of thinking about it?
ROBERT COSTA: No, they have a real agenda this time. You remember, in 2017, it was somewhat sporadic in how they moved and navigated on health care and taxes.
They are moving quickly already behind the scenes to expand the Trump tax cuts, to institute sweeping tariffs across the board. They’re also going to try to, on foreign policy, begin negotiations with Ukraine and Russia sometime early next year. And you have mass deportations, more than anything, galvanizing the Trump people behind the scenes.
Of course, they know it’s going to be controversial. To remove undocumented migrants in a big way across the country could be logistically difficult and politically challenging, but they’re moving ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Bob Costa, thank you.
And we turn now to Tennessee Republican Senator Bill Hagerty, who also served as U.S. ambassador to Japan.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY (R-Tennessee): Yes, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … during the first Trump administration. It’s good to have you here.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: It’s good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Donald Trump has this sweeping mandate, as do Republicans. Do you see this as an unrestrained presidency?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Oh, I think this is a presidency that has a mandate like we haven’t seen, as you mentioned, in 36 years. The American public has spoken loud and clear. And
I think if you go back to your interview with Bob, there are a number of places where Washington has been out of touch with the American people. You mentioned Ukraine. I think that’s a great example. The American people want sovereignty protected here in America before we spend our funds and resources protecting the sovereignty of another nation.
You think about it, we’ve sent $175 billion of U.S. aid to Ukraine. That’s more than three times the entire annual budget of the U.S. Marine Corps. I have been one of the few senators in the United States Senate who has voted and has opposed every cent of this Ukraine aid.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I have been listening to the American people. We need to focus on our own issues first.
And I have taken a lot of heat over it from Mitch McConnell, from “The Wall Street Journal.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: But this is what the American people spoke up and want us to do. We should never have been in Ukraine. It’s a result of failed policies, failed energy policies, the failure in Afghanistan.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s no U.S. presence in Ukraine. Are you talking about…
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: No, but our funds. I’m talking about the vast amount of funds, again, $175 billion.
That’s a tremendous amount, as I said, more than three times the budget of the U.S. Marine Corps. The American people want to focus on fixing our problems here. And with the border’s collapse, with crime in the cities, we’ve got to pay attention to America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So does that mean just cuts to U.S. military aid to all countries?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: What it means is that we need to take a very deliberate focus on America first.
But we need to be leading from a position of strength, Margaret. As I said, we would not be in this position. Now what we have is an administration that’s allowing Russia to sell at a $60-a-barrel cap. The argument they make, that reduces Russia’s profits.
What it does, actually, is it subsidizes China to compete again unfairly against us with an energy cost advantage.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: And we keep Vladimir Putin fully funding this war in Ukraine. We need to stop that. We need to go back to producing our own energy and take Russia out.
Interestingly, interestingly, I will call this the Trump effect. But just in the past 72 hours, what we’ve seen is the E.U. say, maybe we should replace Russian LNG with U.S. LNG. You’ve seen in New York City…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that – that’s been talked about for some time.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: … we’re not going to issue debit cards to illegal immigrants anymore. Migrant caravans are being broken up below the border and turned around.
The U.K. has said, we’re going to step our defense budget up to about 2.5 percent, all since President Trump was elected.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Some of that was – was in process already, but let me ask you specifically on Ukraine.
So Hungary’s Prime Minister has said that Donald Trump has told him he will cut off support to Ukraine. You are saying here, I think, in the new Congress, there will be no more aid to Ukraine.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I have certainly not voted for any aid.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I know you haven’t, but is that – is that the mandate?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: And I think President Trump will find – President Trump will find a way to deal with this. I’m not going to get ahead of him. I’m certain that he’s going to find a way to navigate this that’s in the interest of the American people and will stop the carnage.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, but…
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Look, what’s happened in Ukraine is terrible. People are dying.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: They continue to die. But we need to stop this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But – but here’s the thing, we also are seeing this alignment of like an axis of adversaries, right? You have Iranian equipment. You have Chinese equipment.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Deeply concerning, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. You have North Korean personnel on the battlefield.
So this idea that Ukraine is somehow divorced from the rest of geopolitics doesn’t seem to be bearing out. It’s of deep concern to some of our Asian allies, Japan, South Korea. So how are you going to be able to do this without complicating the chessboard?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Well, I think it’s become complicated because America has not been standing in a position of strength. The reason is that Russia has been fully funded because of the policies that allow them to sell energy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there are extensive sanctions on Russia, whether or not they’re…
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Iran, we had them shut down. Iran was broke. Now they’re able to fund terror all over the world. We had a maximum pressure campaign.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In part because they have all these other adversaries that they’re doing business with, right? China.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: They were not able to do that under the Trump administration. That’s why we saw peace breaking out in the Middle East. Without Iran being shut down, which is what we did under the maximum pressure campaign – President Trump led this.
We were able to move our embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Everybody said it couldn’t happen. It did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: The Abraham Accords. Peace was breaking out in the Middle East because Iran could not fund terror.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: As soon as the Biden administration came in, they stopped enforcing…
MARGARET BRENNAN: There were attacks by Iran during the Trump administration.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Nothing to the level that we’ve seen here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And the assassination of Qasem Soleimani.
But, on the Middle East. Israel’s Prime Minister said this morning that he spoke to President Trump three times in recent days, and they discussed Iran and they discussed a peace plan. Do you know what the content of those conversations was?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: No. And, if I did, I wouldn’t discuss them here, because that has to be navigated very carefully.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, one of the reasons I ask is, we do have this this mid-November deadline that the State Department, the Pentagon have set for Israel to improve the flow of aid to Gaza’s two million residents. The U.N. says there is famine already, or on the verge of famine.
If it is found that Israel is indeed violating. U.S. law, would you hold them accountable? Should there be consequences? Because they are recipients of U.S. aid.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Well, I have had huge disagreements with this administration in terms of how they’ve administered their entire policy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But this is U.S. law. It’s not just this administration. It’s humanitarian law.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Yes. Well, I think what we’ve seen just break out again in the past 70-plus hours since President Trump won the election, Hamas is now looking for total peace. So I think the environment has totally changed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: They’ve announced they’d like to see peace. They like to see peace in Gaza. Let’s see where that leads.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You believe – you believe that there will be a hostage deal negotiated under President Trump?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I would like to see what – I would like to see what Hamas means by this statement. But it seems that the entire environment is shifting right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Because they see new leadership coming in. And I’m encouraged by that, and I think we’ll have new opportunities to – again, President Trump was able to deliver peace through strength.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I think that’s on the way, and I’m optimistic what it might lead to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, one of the interesting dynamics we saw in this election was that Mr. Trump was able to, in some ways, successfully campaign and peel off Muslim voters, Arab voters. Certainly, in the state of Michigan, you saw some of that.
Do you think – and they were frustrated by the carnage in Gaza. As a result, do you think Mr. Trump ends up with more wiggle room here to perhaps hold the Israeli prime minister to account, or does he just give a green light?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I think what President Trump is going to do is focus on the root cause, to borrow a term that was used a great deal in the last administration.
He’s going to focus on Iran, because the cause of this is the Iranian funding and training…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: … of Hamas, of Hezbollah, of the Houthis. That would have never happened…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of…
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: … except for the fact that they released the enforcement of sanctions…
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … upholding international law and U.S. legal standards to recipients of U.S. military aid, do you think he will stick by that?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: President Trump is certainly going to uphold U.S. law, but he is also going to make certain that our allies are properly cared for and that our adversaries are dealt with accordingly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I don’t have to tell you this, because you know Asia really well, but five of America’s seven treaty commitments are in that Asia-Pacific.
The U.S. has exposure there in a tremendous way. The last time Donald Trump was president, he talked about pulling U.S. troops out of Japan, pulling them out of South Korea. Is that a priority now, reducing the military footprint in Asia?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I think that comes back again to the failure of the elite here in Washington, Margaret, to understand how a businessperson negotiates.
Everybody has got to sit down and talk about what the options are. We have been supporting military presence in that area ever since World War Two, ever since the Korean War, a significant investment on behalf of the American people.
Those investments were made at a time when these economies were collapsed. They were developing countries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Today, they are fully developed countries. It’s entirely relevant and I think appropriate for President Trump to discuss, within the level of support…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of signaling strength, saying we might ditch our allies isn’t exactly a positive message, right?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I think the message should be that our allies can and should step up to the extent possible to strengthen their own capabilities. We’re seeing it happen. We’re seeing it happen in Japan.
They’ve agreed to double their defense budget from 1 percent to 2 percent of GDP. That’s a positive development.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: They’re trying to work more closely with us. I think, in President Trump’s administration, they definitely will.
This is the direction that we need to go. Same for South Korea.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, you are on a number of powerful Senate Committees. Do you think you’re more useful to Mr. Trump in the Senate, or would you join his Cabinet, if asked?
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: I will just say this.
I was privileged to have a tremendous career in business, but one of the greatest honors in my life was to represent the United States, the greatest country in the world, in President Trump’s administration overseas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: It’s also been one of the greatest honors in my life to represent the people of Tennessee serving in the United States Senate.
In whatever role I hold going – going forward, it’s going to be advanced – – it’s going to be advancing the positions that President Trump has articulated that the American people overwhelmingly supported.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: And I will do that in whatever role necessary, but we are going to see America strong again.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Hagerty, thank you for your time today.
SENATOR BILL HAGERTY: Thank you so much, Margaret. Good to be with you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re back with White House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan.
Jake, good to have you here.
JAKE SULLIVAN (U.S. National Security Adviser): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So we know President Biden and president-elect Trump will meet in the Oval Office on Wednesday.
There are a lot of fires around the world. What is it that President Biden wants to deliver in terms of a focus and message?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, the first and most important message will be that President Biden is committed to the peaceful transfer of power and to a responsible handoff from one president to the next, which is in the best tradition of our country and has been for the last 240 years.
And then they will go through the top issues, both domestic and foreign policy issues, including what is happening in Europe and Asia and the Middle East. And the president will have the chance to explain to President Trump how he sees things, where they stand and talk to President Trump about how President Trump is thinking about taking on these – these issues when he takes office.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, let’s go to Ukraine, because we just heard from Senator Hagerty that world view from that portion of the Republican Party right now.
We know the war is expanding there. The North Korean troops seem to have entered the fight. You have all these adversaries all in on Russia winning there. What can you do in the remaining 70 days to sort of change what’s happening on the ground or Trump-proof the strategy, so to speak?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, look, our approach remains the same as it’s been for the last 2.5 years, which is to put Ukraine in the strongest possible position on the battlefield, so that it is ultimately in the strongest possible position at the negotiating table.
And it should be up to Ukraine to decide, for its own sovereignty and its own territorial integrity, when and how it goes to the negotiating table. It should be up to the United States and a coalition of nations that we have built to continue to supply Ukraine with the means to defend itself against brutal Russian aggression.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve got, like, what, $6 billion in money left that’s already…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: And President Biden made clear when President Zelenskyy was here in Washington a couple of months ago that we would spend all of the resources that were provided to us by the Congress on time and in full, meaning that, by January 20, we will have sent the full amount of resources and aid to Ukraine the Congress has authorized.
And, of course, President Biden will have the opportunity over the next 70 days to make the case to the Congress and to the incoming administration that the United States should not walk away from Ukraine, that walking away from Ukraine means more instability in Europe.
And, ultimately, as the Japanese Prime Minister said, if we walk away from Ukraine in Europe, the question about America’s commitment to our allies in Asia will grow.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you mean President Biden is going to ask Congress to pass more money for Ukraine before he leaves office?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Look, I’m not here to put forward a specific legislative proposal.
But President Biden will make the case that we do need ongoing resources for Ukraine beyond the end of his term, because the threat to Ukraine will remain no matter what exactly happens on the battlefield or at the negotiating table, and the United States should not walk away from its commitment, either to Ukraine or to 50 nations that we have rallied in defense of Ukraine in both Europe and Asia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, U.S. intelligence assessed that Russia favored Donald Trump in this election, that Russia interfered in a fairly dramatic and visible fashion with these fake videos.
What consequence are they going to pay, if any, for doing that?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, first, let’s not forget that we are currently helping Ukraine fight Russia in Ukraine…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: … in the most dramatic and full-throated way one could – could imagine. So we are already doing a substantial number of things to impose costs on Russia.
We have also passed the most sweeping sanctions on Russia that we have seen against a major economy in the world…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Senator Hagerty was saying it’s – Russia’s doing fine even with those sanctions.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, first of all, you can see in many different ways, whether it’s inflation in Russia, whether it’s their ability over time to actually grow their economy, their technology, their capacity to invest in new sources of energy going down the line, that the picture for Russia looks increasingly bleak as time goes on, and that the sanctions are biting.
They have not stopped, obviously, Russia from being able to carry out its military operations in Ukraine today, but they have painted a darker picture for Ukraine – for Russia tomorrow.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you know what Russia is giving North Korea’s Kim Jong-un in exchange for the men he is sending to fight on the battlefield in Ukraine?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: We don’t know for sure.
And, frankly, I think Vladimir Putin doesn’t know for sure. I think he probably hasn’t decided exactly what he’s going to do for North Korea on a going-forward basis.
But I will tell you this. Kim Jong-un expects that he’s going to get something significant, probably in the form of military and technology support from Russia.
MARGARET BRENNAN: For its nuclear program?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: And that’s a distinct possibility. I can’t say exactly what will happen, but we have already heard the Russians come out and say that North Korea’s nuclear program should be looked at differently today than it was five or 10 years ago.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: So the concern about the relationship between Russia and North Korea in both directions is very real and something that all of the nations of the free world need to pay attention to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Prime Minister Netanyahu said he spoke to Donald Trump three times in the past few days. The Israeli president, Isaac Herzog, is coming to the White House. That was just announced.
What makes you think in these final days of the Biden administration that Benjamin Netanyahu would agree to peace in Gaza or agree to peace in Lebanon and not hold on to that political capital for the new president?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Well, Prime Minister Netanyahu will make his decisions, and – and he’ll speak to his decisions.
Here’s what I see. First, in Gaza, it really today is not Israel that is standing in the way of a cease-fire and hostage deal. It is Hamas. Israel has said it’s prepared to do a temporary cease-fire for a number of hostages and then try to build on that to get all of the hostages home.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you know what…
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Hamas has said no.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … Mr. – Senator Hagerty was talking about on that with Hamas?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: I don’t know about the particular statement he made.
What I will tell you is, whatever Hamas is saying publicly, what they are communicating to the mediators is, no, we will not do a cease-fire-and- hostage deal at this time.
So what we need to do is get the rest of the world to continue to increase pressure on Hamas to come to the table to do a deal in Gaza, because the Israeli government has said it’s prepared to take a temporary step in that direction.
And then, when it comes to Lebanon, we have been actively engaged in discussions with the Israeli government.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Those should remain behind closed doors.
But we do believe that, at some point, the Israeli government wants to do a deal that gets its citizens back home. I don’t think it’s doing that deal for American politics. I think it’s doing that deal to try to secure Israel. And I expect that, in the coming weeks, we will see progress in that direction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you hold Israel to account?
Because the secretaries of state and defense have sent letters saying that they’re not allowing in aid to the degree they should, and that there are possibly forced displacements from Northern Gaza. On this program, you have said that was essentially a red line.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: So, basically, what you have seen from Secretary Austin and Secretary Blinken is a letter to their Israeli counterparts that says…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: … here is a set of steps we expect you to take, and we are going to measure you against the progress you are making towards those steps.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: This week, we will make our judgments about what kind of progress they have made. And then Secretary Austin, Secretary Blinken, the president will make judgments about what we do in response, and I’m not going to get ahead of that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very quickly, President Xi and President Biden will be in the same place at these summits in the next few days. Will the president confront him about this pervasive and massive hacking of telecom companies known as Salt Typhoon?
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: President Biden, every time he sees his Chinese counterpart, President Xi, speaks to him about cyber- enabled espionage, about cyberattacks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is a significant attack.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: Yes, it is. It is an absolutely significant attack. It’s something that the FBI, our Department of Homeland Security, and our entire national security enterprise is digging into in a big way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN: And, of course, it will be on the agenda between every American official and every Chinese official in the weeks ahead.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jake Sullivan, a lot happening in the world. Thank you for coming in and talking to us.
We’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Stay tuned across CBS News for all the latest news on president-elect Donald Trump’s transition plans and how his new policies will impact Americans. You can watch live or on demand on Paramount+ or on our CBS News app.
We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with California Congressman Ro Khanna.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
We’re joined now by Democratic Congressman Ro Khanna. He’s in California this morning.
Good morning to you.
This was a rough week for Democrats. I don’t have to tell you that. But, Congressman, I mean, just to level with the American people, Democrats and the Harris campaign told them that the fate of democracy itself was at stake. Was that a cynical, political tactic, or, if it’s reality, what is the plan now?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA (D-CA): Well, Margaret, I think what was at stake is the degradation of American democracy. The course of this, a political discourse. The idea that you have people who are undocumented, 12 million, who may be subject to a violation of their rights. The issues is about climate and the reversal on that. I’ve never said that you weren’t going to have future elections. And I was never one of these people who said you’re not going to have 2026 or 2028. In one or two years, Donald Trump is going to be a lame duck.
But I do think that we need to make sure we stand up for people’s rights in this country and are looking forward and what we can do to win back the House and the White House.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When we look at CBS polling, when you compare Harris in 2024 to Biden in 2020, you see clearly that the Democratic coalition lost support among Latino voters, young voters, women. Republicans really made gains here with men of color as well. Why do you think there is this fracturing?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: We did not have a compelling enough economic vision. The Democratic Party should have one simple mission, and that is to address the economic hardships and struggles of many Americans, not just working class Americans, a large slice of Americans who feel the American dream has slipped away for their families and their kids. And you have new voices, Congress people like Pat Ryan, Mary – Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, Chris Deluzio, who are saying, look, we need to have a vision on building new factories, on helping raise minimum wage, on dealing with child care, and emphasize that our party has a better economic story. I think that can unify our party, moderates and progressives, and it transcends race and will help us with Latino voters, black voters, white working class voters. And we had a better vision than Donald Trump on that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, it’s interesting, in this Monday morning quarterbacking that’s happening, to hear from so many Democrats now who are saying that they think that economic message should have been front and center, but that they felt constrained somehow by this focus on identity politics. Tom Suozzi of New York brought that up, talking about Republicans being able to weaponize anarchy on college campuses, defunding the police, and gender questions and girls sports. Do you think this, you know, movement, woke politics, really was incredibly damaging to the left? Because a large part of that came from the progressive wing in – on which you are a member.
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, I have always said that we need to be emphasizing the economic issues. But I don’t think we should run away for standing up for trans rights, for standing up for equal rights for people, for teaching American history responsibly. You can be true to your values with two things, Margaret. One, if someone disagrees with you, we need to respect that disagreement, not cancel or shame them. Don’t shy away from your convictions, but have a reasonable conversation. I did that with Megyn Kelly on a podcast on trans rights. I stuck to my position, but we had a reasonable conversation.
The second thing is, if we emphasize the economic hardships people are facing. I’ve got $12 trillion in my district in Silicon Valley while towns like Johnstown (ph) were hollowed out. Galesburg, Illinois, were hollowed out. We can build new factories. We can build new industry. We can create new economic opportunity. We have a vision of how to do that. Joe Biden – President Biden started it. I think we can win over people, even if they may not agree with us, on a particular social issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you specifically about your district, since you just mentioned it. Silicon Valley was thought of as reliably blue, but particularly in this election you saw money going towards Donald Trump. You’ve seen some very prominent tech names, Elon Musk significantly. And J.D. Vance, the vice presidential candidate, he really reached out into that tech community as part of that campaign.
What is the thing that Silicon Valley thinks it’s going to get from a Trump administration? Is it – is it no taxes on capital gains? Is it not regulating crypto? What is it that the people in your district think they’re getting from Donald Trump?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, first of all, Margaret, 70 percent of Silicon Valley still supported Vice President Harris and Democrats.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: But you’re right that we had slippage, and probably now 20 percent, 30 percent support Donald Trump. They have different reasons for doing it. Some of them want more free speech. Some of them want deregulation. Some of them want tax cuts. Some of them want AI not to be regulated. Some of them were concerned on crypto.
But I think what the Democrats need to remind folks of, and I reminded Elon of this, is that Tesla got funding from President Obama. SpaceX got started because Ash Carter, under President Obama, helped Elon get that facility. The Democrats are the party that has invested in the science and technology to help build Silicon Valley. And we can be the party that helps AI and robotics build new factories, build new industry in different parts of the country.
When we argue policy, we have a better vision for how to get Americans and prosperity in a modern economy. And if we focus on that, I believe we will win back the majority and win back in 2028.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Former Speaker Pelosi told “The New York Times” there were messaging errors, yes, but she also said, there should have been an open primary system here, and that President Biden’s decision to endorse Vice President Harris immediately made it impossible.
Do you agree with her?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, look, I have a lot of respect for Speaker Pelosi, but I’ve sort of chuckled with people have said this about President Biden because the day he got out we had Democrats with the most over the top superlatives, comparing him to George Washington, saying he did the most honorable thing. So now to go back and criticize him seems a bit contradictory.
I think this was a winnable campaign, even when he got out. Vice President Harris was five points up in some of the polls. Anyone who is saying now this was not a winnable campaign didn’t say that back in August. The reason we didn’t win ultimately is we didn’t listen enough to people on the ground. People like Chris Deluzio, Pat Wright (ph), who were saying, talk about the economy. Talk about people’s economic struggles. Have – convince people you have the better policies and better vision.
The reason I’m hopeful for the future is, we have the substance. We actually – you can’t build new factories just with tariffs and tax cuts. You need federal financing. We have actual investment in apprenticeships. And I think over the long run, the American people will see the truth of the policy ideas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You were a surrogate for Joe Biden. You were then a surrogate for Kamala Harris. And on this program you defended both many times. One place you did create space was on the issue of Gaza. You said when you were going to college campuses, when you were talking to progressives, when you were talking to voters of color, not just Arabs and Muslims, you heard there was a problem here.
Do you think that the numbers you saw, particularly in Michigan, vindicated your point of view, or was there just a greater force at work?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: I think she would have certainly won Michigan if there was more of a reckoning with the failures of policy on Gaza. And that wasn’t my point of view. That was the point of view of a lot of people I was hearing on the ground.
I also think, beyond Michigan, this really was a concern for a lot of young people and a lot of progressives.
Now, my hope is, because President Trump got some of the votes from the Muslim and Arab community, I was just on a bipartisan CODEL in Saudi Arabia, they have said that if the president wants a deal with Saudi Arabia that the Palestinian state and a two-state solution has to be front and center, and I hope we can work towards actually doing that after the war.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ro Khanna. Congressman, thank you very much for your time today.
We’ll be right back.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the economy and Minneapolis Federal Reserve President Neel Kashkari. He joins us now.
Neel, good morning to you.
NEEL KASHKARI (Minneapolis Federal Reserve President): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, right after the election, another big event was the Federal Reserve moving on interest rates, cutting them for the second time so far this year. That seemed to indicate that you believe inflation is being defeated here.
Can you tell us your assessment of how stable the economy is and how confident you are that we are on a glide path that will avoid recession?
NEEL KASHKARI: Well, we’ve made a lot of progress in bringing inflation down, and the economy has remained remarkably strong. We keep getting revisions to GDP that are – show that the economy is growing even faster than we had appreciated, and the unemployment rate is 4.1 percent. So, right now, the economy is in a good place. Inflation is still running around 2.5 percent or so. So, we’re not all the way home. We need to finish the job. But so far so good. I mean I don’t want to declare victory yet. We need to finish the job. But we’re on a good path right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Finish the job. Are – you’re – it sounds like you’re expecting another rate cut?
NEEL KASHKARI: Well, we want to have confidence that inflation is going to go all the way back down to our 2 percent target. So, if you look at the – what we call the summary of economic projections, which are the forecast that my colleagues and I put out, the expectation is that we would do another interest rate cut in December. We need to actually see what the data looks like before reaching any conclusions. And that’s six weeks from now. But I think another rate cut is certainly possible.
But ultimately, if the economy continues to perform well, a strong economy, a strong labor market, that’s going to – that’s the outcome that we’re all trying to achieve. And I don’t think that that’s a partisan view. I think everybody’s on board with trying to achieve that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Fed is apolitical. But we are looking at promises of major changes in this new administration. One of them is mass deportations.
When you were last here in June, we talked about the impact of immigration on inflation. You said, in some ways it helps lower it by filling jobs. At the same time you said it may contribute to it because it creates more demand for goods.
How long before we would see the economic impact of say a mass deportation plan?
NEEL KASHKARI: Well, it’s a great question, Margaret. I mean I think – if you just assume that people are working, either working in farms or working in factories, and then those businesses now lose employees, that would probably cause some disruption for those businesses as they try to respond to that. And so the implications for inflation are not entirely clear to me. I think ultimately it’s going to be between the business community and Congress and the executive branch to figure out what – you know, how they would adjust to that and how – how long it would take and how disruptive it would be.
I don’t have any insight into that. I’m not sure what the inflation implications would be. I think it’s a big question of how long it would take, how many new immigrants were coming in. There’s just so much uncertainly about what the actual policies will be, what will get passed through the Congress, how it will be implemented. We, at the Fed, will simply wait. We have to wait and see what the rest of the government decides to do before we analyze what it means for the economy going forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know you don’t control fiscal policy, but the president-elect has unveiled a plan that estimates say would add $8 trillion to the deficit. How concerned are you about rising deficits?
NEEL KASHKARI: Well, if you look over the long-term, if you look at, for example, at the Congressional Budget Office forecast of debts and deficits, they grow to the moon. They grow unsustainably. So, at some point, those have to be addressed. And that is purely the domain of the Congress and the executive branch to negotiate how to do that. At some point they have to be addressed. And so our focus is, whatever Congress and the administration decide to do, we have our goals. Our goals are 2 percent inflation and a strong labor market, maximum employment, and we will adjust our monetary policies to try to achieve that.
But, you’re right, over the long run, it’s clear that the deficit needs to be addressed. But that is also, as I said, the domain of Congress and the executive branch to sort out.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Goldman Sachs analysts were out this week with a report saying that the last time we saw Trump tariffs, it – the cost was passed along to consumers. They estimate every 5 percent increase in the tariff rate would reduce corporate earnings per share by 1 to 2 percent because it would pull back consumer spending, possibly trigger retaliatory tariffs and increased uncertainty. How much of a downside risk is there if we get into this business of tariffs?
NEEL KASHKARI: Well, from an inflation perspective, it’s pretty easy to model a one-time tariff. So, if somebody imposed a 1 percent tariff or a 10 percent tariff, you would think that that would increase prices of those goods either 1 percent or 10 percent. That’s pretty easy to model and it shouldn’t have an effect long-run on inflation.
The challenge becomes if there’s a tit for tat and it’s one country imposing tariffs and then responses and it’s escalating.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
NEEL KASHKARI: That’s where it becomes more concerning, and, frankly, a lot more uncertain.
So I think, again, with – as is with fiscal policy, we’ll have to wait and see what actually gets implemented and then how other countries might respond to that. It’s just – right now we’re just all guessing what will actually happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it’s safe to say that the new president will take office with what appears to be the economy trending upwards?
NEEL KASHKARI: The economy is strong. You know, when I reach out to business and labor unions all around my region it’s one of cautious optimism, that the economy is doing well, there are jobs available. And we want to keep the economy doing well. We want to keep that growth going while we get inflation all the way back down to 2 percent. And so, right now, I would say, we have a strong economy, and that’s a really good thing. And our objective is to keep it there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Chair Powell was asked this week at a press conference if he would resign if asked. He made clear he does not think that the law would require that. And, in fact, it would violate the law.
But there is a broader conversation right now about political influence on the Fed. Are you concerned about it?
NEEL KASHKARI: I’m not. My colleagues and I at the Federal Reserve are totally committed to the dual mandate goals of 2 percent inflation and maximum employment that Congress has assigned us. That’s what’s driving the decisions that we’ve been making. And that will continue to do so.
And there are also structural elements that are designed by Congress to provide continuity. So, the governors at the board of governors in Washington serve up to 14-year terms. The presidents of the reserve banks are independent. These are structures that Congress put in place to provide continuity. Between that and, I think, bipartisan support, that we all want to get inflation back down to 2 percent and we want to keep the economy strong, I’m confident that we will continue to focus on our economic jobs, and that’s what should be dictating what we’re doing, and that is what’s dictating what we’re doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Neel Kashkari, thank you for your time today.
We’ll be back in a moment.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re now joined by Dame Karen Pierce, the U.K.’s ambassador to the United States.
Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.
DAME KAREN PIERCE (British Ambassador to the United States): Thank you very much, Margaret. Nice to be here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Ambassador, after this election there was a lot of chatter in Europe about Europe needing to act alone, or at least without as much of an American support mechanism there. The French president said, “Europe needs to take back control.” Italy’s prime minister said, “don’t ask what the U.S. can do for you, ask what Europe should do for itself.”
What do you think Trump’s return will mean for Europe?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: I think in all my experience, Margaret, when America and Europe work together, that’s when you get success. That’s when you get coherence in policy. We saw that in the Balkans. We’ve seen it at every conflict since the 1990s. It’s great that Europe wants to do more. We want to be a part of that. We’ve got a lot of burden sharing going on in Europe on Ukraine. I think perhaps it’s not well understood in America, if I may say so, quite how much Europe is doing for Ukraine, and we want to talk about that with the incoming administration, as well as work with the Biden team to help Ukraine even further.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The United Kingdom, of course, has provided a tremendous amount of weaponry and support to Ukraine.
DAME KAREN PIERCE: That’s exactly right. I think we’re over $16 billion all in. We provided the first tanks. We provided the first anti-tank weapons. We have trained Ukrainian pilots. We’re going to go on supporting Ukraine for as long as they need us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you do that if the United States cuts off financial and military aid to Ukraine?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: Well, we obviously hope that doesn’t happen and we’re going to be wanting to have lots of conversations with the outgoing and incoming administrations on just how best to support Ukraine. I think we all want the same thing. We want a stable, secure, peaceful Euro-Atlantic area. And if Putin is allowed to succeed in Ukraine, that threatens all of us, including the U.S., and it certainly emboldens China. And I don’t think anyone in the U.S. wants to see that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on Friday, Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orban, who is a problematic NATO ally, he’s friends with Vladamir Putin and Donald Trump, he said, “the situation on the front is obvious. There’s been a military defeat. The Americans are going to pull out of this war.” He’s talking about Ukraine.
Do you think Mr. Trump is persuadable on this issue?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: Well, I don’t think it’s for any single European leader to say what President Trump might do. I think we need to hear from President Trump after inauguration on what the new administration plans are. But certainly, I know they share our goal of wanting to have security and stability, and we’ll be talking to them and the outgoing Biden administration to see how best we can support Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mr. Orban does speak with Donald Trump, but you don’t get the sense that he is reflecting what’s next?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: We speak to Donald Trump. The prime minister spoke to him very recently on the Wednesday after, the day after the election.
In my experience, President Trump is his own person. He’ll listen to a lot of advice, some of it solicited, some of it unsolicited, and he’ll weigh the pros and cons and he’ll come to his own decision. But I have always found him and his team very willing to listen to our point of view.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on the trade front, there’s also concern in Europe, as I understand it, about what may be coming with tariffs. The Trump campaign has proposed a 10 percent across the board tariff on Europe. Goldman Sachs projects it will be perhaps a little bit more limited and focused on auto exports. Do you have a sense that the U.K. may be able to avoid this kind of financial penalty, essentially?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: We would very much hope so, as the U.K. You know, we’ve got free trade in our DNA, as it were. We don’t believe in tariffs as an instrument of trade. We have a slightly different approach for many American trade specialists on that. And I think the last thing the world needs at the moment is a tariff war. That doesn’t help anybody. Trade and investments is a hugely important part of what we do with America. Something like a trillion dollars goes backwards and forwards across the Atlantic in trade and investment each year. Let’s not put that at risk. Let’s try and find out how we can work together to increase investment in trade. And there’s also the really important issue of economic security that’s now come onto the agenda. And we’ll be wanting to talk to the incoming administration about that also.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you served here in Washington during the first Trump administration. You know many of these players. The current U.K. government is a different one, of course, from that period of time, with the Labour Party in charge. I have to ask you about that direct relationship, because the top diplomat, Foreign Secretary David Lammy, years ago, and you know this quote, wrote, “Trump is not only a woman-hating, neo-Nazi sympathizing sociopath, he’s a profound threat to the international order.”
Are you concerned that those past statements, and the ideological differences, will be a problem in what has been a special relationship?
DAME KAREN PIERCE: I don’t think the past statements will be a problem, to be absolutely honest, Margaret. Politicians say a lot of things on both sides. And even in America, some people who are now in the Trump administration, or will be in the Trump administration, like the vice president-elect, have also said critical things about President Trump.
In my experience, politicians kind of absorb those sorts of comments as part of the wear and tear of political life. What’s important is the relationship now. David Lammy, the foreign secretary, the prime minister, Keir Starmer, had a very warm dinner with President Trump in September. He very graciously invited them to his private home in Trump Tower. We discussed a huge range of issues.
You’re right that they come from different political philosophies. I won’t call them ideological. I don’t think Keir Starmer is ideological. And I don’t think President Trump is. It’s about finding out how we can work together. What they do have in common is this desire to get the economies moving, to get growth for the ordinary citizen, to make sure things are better for the ordinary citizen. And we had a very good conversation about that with President Trump in September.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it. Thank you for watching. Happy birthday, Marines!
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